Revenue Radio: Banking considerations for the healthcare industry

Episode 13 July 06, 2023 00:34:54
Revenue Radio: Banking considerations for the healthcare industry
Kassouf Podcast Network
Revenue Radio: Banking considerations for the healthcare industry

Jul 06 2023 | 00:34:54

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Hosted By

Tara Arrington

Show Notes

Kassouf Healthcare Solutions' Revenue Radio gives practice managers the tools you need to run a successful and profitable medical practice. Your host, Kassouf Healthcare Solutions Executive Director Jeff Dance, discusses the opportunities and challenges related to the business side of medicine. 

In this episode, Jeff chats with Erin Price of River Bank & Trust. Erin shares current banking considerations for those in the healthcare industry, especially medical practices. 

Founded in 1981, Kassouf Healthcare Solutions was created to handle the business side of medicine, allowing doctors to focus on their patients. The Kassouf Healthcare Solutions team is comprised of operations management and revenue cycle specialists. We enhance the business of medicine by providing value to our clients with an action-oriented and caring customer-centered focus. Learn more here. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 00:00:02 Welcome to Revenue Radio, our podcast powered by Kassouf. I am your host, Jeff Dance. I'm the executive director at Kassouf Healthcare Solutions, where we strive to enhance the business of medicine for you. The practice manager, the physician, and the practice owner. Hey, it's good to be back in, uh, on our podcast, Russ, uh, Dorsey, who is our producer, and, uh, he's also the director of our information technology here at Kassouf. Uh, we're in our new, uh, broadcast studio, so it's, uh, it's great to be in here and, uh, be a part of our, our new digs. Speaker 2 00:00:41 Glad glad to be here. Took a little while to get into this room, but, uh, but you moved a bunch of people down here too. That's right. This Speaker 1 00:00:46 Works out. That's, that's right. We're, we're working hard to coexist. Speaker 2 00:00:49 You gotta stop growing. Speaker 1 00:00:50 Yeah. Well, thank, thanks, Russ for all you do to help us, uh, get this up and, and running. And I know Tara Arrington in our, uh, in our marketing and media relations department, uh, is a big part of our production as well. Hey, today, uh, our special guest with us is Aaron Price. Aaron is, uh, with Riverbank and Trust. It's good to have you here, Aaron. We're gonna be talking, uh, a little bit about how the banking industry impacts, uh, that business of medicine and, uh, a little bit about, uh, Aaron, I'll let you tell a bit more about yourself. But, um, uh, Aaron has been in large corporate banking for 12 years. Last five years or so, he's been the finance division, uh, with, uh, riverbank and Trust. He focuses on healthcare and helping our physicians and physician owners, uh, in various different practice lines, uh, make, uh, wise banking decisions. And, uh, we are really a, uh, uh, uh, fortunate to have him here today. And we thank you for your time and look forward to hearing from you as you, um, as you add value to our discussion, as well as those who, who, uh, listen in. And, uh, we're gonna, we're just gonna jump right in Aaron and, and see where we go with this. Speaker 3 00:02:11 I love it. You all right. I'm, I'm appreciative of you having me on and excited to be talking. Speaker 1 00:02:15 Good. Well, uh, our, our kind of, our focus today is gonna be on the current banking considerations, kind of that environment and such. And so we hear a lot about the interest rates, uh, spiking and some of what's going on with inflation and such. Tell us a little bit about how a practice owner, uh, should be thinking as it relates to their current bank and financings, uh, in environment that they have to function within right now. Speaker 3 00:02:48 Yeah. We, we are in, we are in a tough, uh, we are in a tough rising rate in interest rate environment. And, uh, I have been working with, with doctors for a long time within the, the healthcare segment. And, and that can be, you know, um, a combination of things that can be, uh, you know, a doctor looking at starting a practice that can be a doctor looking at acquiring a practice, uh, expanding a, a practice and really supporting a doctor throughout all life cycles of practice ownership. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, and really, you know, when you think about that and you think about, you know, the interest rate environment that we are in, it is, is a tough rising rate environment. You know, uh, think about this week, the, the Federal Reserve, uh, met to review, uh, the Fed funds rate, and they, um, they chose not to increase that rate. Speaker 3 00:03:45 Um, so that the Fed fund rate is kind of the rate that banks will borrow from other banks, right? <affirmative>, so you're almost consider that as your, your wholesale deposits, right? And, and so that's, that rate stayed the same, but the Federal Reserve said, Hey, you know, we are probably going to increase interest rates here over the next six months, so you guys just be prepared mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and when you kind of tie that Fed fund rates to, you know, a doctor specifically think about, think about prime interest rate, and, and that's really your interest rate, that your most qualified borrowers are going to, you know, obtain right. For working capital. Uh, even think, you know, their, their personal homes, home equity lines of credit, that's kind of your, your bank's variable interest rate. And, and so that interest rate, you know, that that's at eight and a quarter as of today. So, um, and then even tying it a little further, you know, you know, doctors have, uh, they have invested a lot of time within their education and their careers and, and being successful. They may have gone to work, you know, with a residency and or specialized within their field. And so as a banker, you, you know, I know that they've put the time in to be successful within their career, and, uh, so that their interest rate, you know, environment is usually a little more competitive than Prime. Right. Right. Speaker 1 00:05:13 Uh, I guess at one point you made, uh, in our, some discussion prior to is that sometimes you think of a physician being, uh, a borrower at every stage of his or her life, uh, through med school and then trying to get into their practice. Some of the enhancements and things that have to happen, uh, sometimes we're in adjustable rate, uh, type of, uh, environments and situations. Uh, as a, as a physician owner or an owner of a practice, what, what, what should the doctor be thinking? Yeah, so, I mean, I know there's the stay outta debt as, but sometimes you have to have that ongoing just to keep normal operations in place. And that's not always a bad thing. But man, if I get into an adjustable rate, what, what am I, what am I thinking? Speaker 3 00:06:04 Yeah. So it obviously, it, it takes a little money to make a little money, right? And so there, there are life cycles within a doctor's career that, that they're borrowing that money and, uh, it, it's a full cycle. And for a banker, you know, it obviously makes for a fantastic client, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because they're going to, um, you know, borrow a little money when they, uh, get their student loans, then they're probably going to purchase that first house. And then it comes time to either start that practice or buy into the practice, uh, acquire a practice. And so, um, a banker that understands healthcare can support that doctor throughout all life cycles of, of practice ownership. And then, you know, we, we do have, uh, there are, there are a lot of different loans out there for doctors. And so, uh, there are some adjustable rate, uh, commercial loans. Speaker 3 00:06:57 And, you know, if you're working with a healthcare banker that kind of understands your, your specific practice goals, to me, I think tying that debt to that specific practice goal is extremely important, right? Let's say, you know, you have a doctor that is looking to start a practice, right? Let's, let's use a dentist for an example. The sexiest, uh, dental loan right now on the market is probably a, a fixed 15 year rate, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But if that doctor is 30, 35 years old, you know, do they really need a 15 year term, uh, for that money? May, maybe not, because, you know, as they get older, let's, they, they don't wanna be paying that debt when they're 45 years old. So, for me, uh, as a healthcare banker, understanding and knowing what specific practice goals that that practice owner has when something does come due, you know, let's say that that dentist that took that 15 year money, if we're talking and we're having proactive conversations, we're, we're gonna be trying to pay that debt, let's say seven years. Speaker 3 00:08:02 Cuz I think the statistic is maybe 90% of all healthcare loans are paid off within seven years. So if we know that doctor's goal is to expand or purchase commercial real estate down the road, then hey, let's be aggressive and let, let's find a term that, that meets that, that goal that's coming due mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, you know, maybe, hey, you're, you got a doctor that wants to purchase a piece of equipment, but they're still, um, three, $400,000 of debt. Let's, you know, let's plan, let's understand that the goal is to expand the practice, and let's tie, let's, let's make sure that existing debt, if it's come and due, let's tie it to, hey, couple years, and then we'll purchase that equipment. So then we're expanding. We're not just refinancing past that. Speaker 1 00:08:49 And I think part of the, the value that someone like yourself brings to a client, to the, the, the, the customer is this whole idea that you're specializing in healthcare, you understand kind of the life cycle of a physician, a physician practice, and again, be it dentist or, or, uh, on the medical side and the, the various specialties that come about, but you kind of, you know, where they're coming from, where they're trying to get to, being able to speak their language and staying in that industry is really important to a, a physician client, uh, and how they need to structure their, not only the banking relationship, but the financing that needs to come about through all of that. Speaker 3 00:09:36 I, I would absolutely agree. And, and understanding the structure is, is very important. And understanding the practice goal is very important. So, so you don't want a, you don't want a loan to have, you know, an adjustable rate. If the goal is to, you know, Hey, we're gonna purchase equipment, right? We don't want to put that doctor in a, in a loan that maybe is an interest only payment for a longer period of time. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So understanding what that doctor is doing specifically with the capital is crucial to, to help and support that doctor. Speaker 1 00:10:12 So yeah, we know cash is king. Everybody needs to, to hold that cash. Uh, we hear all the, the, the discussion back and forth about it and such, uh, the banks now seem to be promoting more of a, Hey, we, we'd like your deposits more so than what can we do to finance you? Right, right, right. Now, um, how does that look on the balance sheet? Not, not trying to get into a big accounting, uh, question here, but, but what's the strategy behind some of that? And from the, from the giver of the money, you know, right. The, the physician and the owner making the loan or the, um, the deposit, but also what is it the bank is trying to also do for its for its client? Speaker 3 00:11:00 Absolutely. So we, when you think about riverbank and trust, we are, we're a community bank, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we, we are taking local community deposits and we are making local loans to small businesses in Alabama, right? And so, you know, when we have a, a, a deposit, when we, when we go after the community and, and we're able to help onboard some deposits, we can take that money and in turn, put it to work in small business loans. And so I, I had mentioned the fed fund rate. So there, there's two ways to make loans, right? You can loan your money or you can borrow, uh, money via the Fed fund rate. So if you're thinking, you know, hey, if we've got local deposits in return, if we've gathered those deposits, we can lend those out at a competitive interest rate versus paying, you know, five and a quarter and then, and then still needing to make a spread to cover overhead cost, uh, for the bank. Speaker 3 00:11:56 And, and so if we can gather deposits from that, uh, small business, from the, from the doctor, in return, we can go out to the community and make those deposits. And, and as it relates to the, the practice owner, you, you know, think about, um, thinking about being a quality applicant, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if the bank is, is only gonna get a loan out of the, the transaction, you know, then you may experience some higher pricing, right? The, there may be a little more risk involved because there aren't deposits in, in that bank account. Um, and so it's important for a doctor to be working on, uh, building their assets, right? On the bank side, uh, um, deposits are liability, right? We, we owe you those deposits if you want to come get, get a deposit or make a withdrawal on the, you know, on our side, the loan is an asset, but on the practice side, it, it is truly an asset because, um, when we go to evaluate the overall snapshot of that doctor, you know, a strong cash position is a crucial, crucial part of just, you know, underwriting and, and getting comfortable with approving a practice loan. Speaker 3 00:13:09 And then think down the road as your practice grows, you know, if you've done a great job of saving, you know, you may not need to borrow money, right? You can use that cash to expand. And then if you do want to borrow money, the money's in the bank. And so now, you know, opposite side of the corn, you're going to get a very strong interest rate because, hey, that money's with the bank, right? You know, we know you can go pay cash for that. So we want to be competitive when, when we do have a full relationship and, and in a community bank that the deposits are, are life and soul of a community bank. Very important piece. So Speaker 1 00:13:42 Let, let's follow that real quick, uh, on just a, just a little bit of a rabbit trail. Uh, we've heard some of the, uh, situations with banks failing in that and some, some, uh, depositors, maybe a little leery of the community bank setting. It's may have that persona as being a, a little, or perception as being a little bit smaller, riskier. And, and what would you, what would you tell, because I mean, we've got clients in rural areas of Alabama and other parts of the, of the country in the, the, the community bank stands. It is, it's, it's the deal. And, uh, they need to, uh, uh, promote themselves. How, what's the, what's the security factor? How do, how do you pitch that message that, that you're, you're not gonna fail? Speaker 3 00:14:37 So, riverbank, we, we take local deposits in, in the state of Alabama, and we make loans to small business and homeowners in the state of Alabama. And, you know, we have been in business since 2006. When you think of, uh, when you think of Alabama state chartered banks, you have one very large, uh, national bank that's home here. Then you have a regional bank that's about, uh, 12 billion in assets. And, and riverbank is 3 billion in assets. And so I think the average size of our deposit customer is about $50,000. Um, and so well below if having anything, uh, centralized or anything concentrated, uh, I mean, we're making very smart loans to, to small business owners in the state of Alabama. Uh, we are rapidly growing as well. We're expanding the, the bank is, um, we just opened our 23rd location in Florence. And so, you know, Birmingham, we've been going for a year strong. Speaker 3 00:15:38 Now, uh, we have offices in, uh, Montgomery. So the bank was started in Prattville, Montgomery, uh, Auburn, Clanton, Huntsville, again, mobile Birmingham. And, uh, I would focus on leadership, right? So we have very local leadership, very seasoned bankers. Uh, I'm on a team of, of 17 now here in Birmingham. And we, uh, have the local credit authority to, uh, transact. And, and bankers understand when you're working with seasoned bankers, they understand, uh, what a good deal is and, and what, you know, a good debt service coverage is. And they understand, you know, how to loan money to businesses that will be successful. And so, uh, you've just got a lot, lot of seasoned bankers within riverbank and trust. And you look at the California banks that, you know, may have had very large depositors think of, uh, large accounts, and, and so, uh, strong bank and excited to be a part of. And I, I left a big corporate bank to go work for riverbank and trust. And so, uh, really, it's been a, a, a fun, fun opportunity, and it's been, uh, hard work, but, um, it's, it's a good bank with great leadership. And in fact, our CEO is here in Birmingham today. He's out making calls. I, I may get in trouble for being on this podcast, Speaker 1 00:16:59 <laugh>. Well, uh, I, I'll be glad to doubt for you and, uh, uh, he can, he can take it up with me. Uh, so again, not promoting one over the other, per se, but, uh, I somehow a relationship is built, a decisions made. I want to change banks. I want to move those deposits, uh, over, uh, to a bank. What, what are some things that I need to be thinking about as it relates to that? Or even if I don't want to necessarily, uh, mutually exclude exclusively, uh, uh, stop one and start another, but what might be some considerations I need to be thinking about as a practice owner, manager, director, something along those lines where I'm making that decision. What do I need to think about as I, uh, change banks open a new bank account with a new bank? Uh, what, what are some steps that would be required? Speaker 3 00:18:01 Well, you know, you know, you, everybody gets this thought process in their head that man, ba changing banks is just brutal. But in today's world, with the technology, it is just a simple process. And, and if you're working with a seasoned banker that not only wants, but appreciates your, your banking relationship, they're going to go above and beyond to, to earn that business and, and speaking for, you know, riverbank. Where, where, uh, I work, we use the power of technology to reach out there and, you know, hey, if, if we have a great conversation and there's an opportunity for me to support your practice, I'm going online. I'm, I'm grabbing your articles of formation or incorporation online, and hey, I'm, I'm going to have a conversation with you, kind of understand your practice goals, your practice needs mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and we will make sure you know, that, that we're in the right type of account, uh, for your practice. Speaker 3 00:18:55 But it, it's so easy with the power of technology, and I've got a, a great team member that I work with, that, that not only after we onboard you, we're gonna make sure that, you know, hey, checks are received, you know, debit card in hand, uh, interest rate that is, uh, you know, hey, we're, we're paying for some deposits right now, and so making sure everything is set up correctly the first time, and it is a painless process. So, uh, I would say if your banker isn't appreciative of your business, if they aren't calling proactive, you know, making sure that, uh, your practice goals or needs are, are being met. Uh, right now, the, the interest rate environment, yes, it's high on loans, but it's also high on the deposit side, right? And so, uh, if you have a large balance sitting at a bank and they're not paying for it, then hey, I, you know, any banker would welcome a conversation to, to try to earn that business and review what the they can offer for you. Speaker 1 00:19:52 Good. So that kinda reviewing and helping, helping, uh, an owner out. Um, and another type of change is say I have a line of credit with a bank. At what point do I, I want to term out that balance that's still out there and, um, what, what are some of the strategies of terming out a a line of credit? Maybe explain a little bit of that for Speaker 3 00:20:17 Us. Yeah, working capital is crucial for a business to succeed. There, there is no if, ands, or buts, and I love providing working capital, small business owners in the state of Alabama to, to help those businesses grow. Uh, and so if you're working with a banker and, and, you know, within the healthcare segment, if they understand how you're going to use that working capital, um, you know, sometimes you, you may not want to put an equipment loan on a working capital line of credit, right? So communicating with the banker and understanding and knowing what your goal is and how you're going to use that working capital is so crucial because if you think about a working capital line of credit, think about, you know, maybe a doctor, and they're wanting to, they're wanting to onboard another doctor, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And they know that that practice is gonna inc increase collections, a hundred thousand. Speaker 3 00:21:09 So let's say, Hey, we, we don't want to use all our cash to pay that doctor's salary. A a perfect example of a working capital line of credit would be, Hey, let's go ahead and fund this doctor's salary, 30, 40,000. We know we got a a hundred coming into the bank, and, and let's go ahead and pay off that line. So, so to me, understanding, you know, how the capital is gonna be used is important, but, but if there is a balance, let's, let's say you, let's say you borrowed some money to start a practice, right? If you were working with a specific healthcare banker, they would understand and know how to structure that loan. They would understand to, let's maybe look at a closed ended line of credit, right? Where we give the doctor maybe a year to kind of go do the project, maybe build out some, uh, some leasehold improvements, buy some equipment, you know, advertise, there's some legal costs. Speaker 3 00:22:03 But let, let's say the doctor goes and does a project, and then I've approved them for 500,000, and we end up using maybe 200,000 of that loan. So you're, you're going to, you know, we're gonna have a structure in place to where in the beginning we're gonna term that debt out after that project phase, and then we're going to maybe have some ramp up payments in the beginning and then start really getting after, maybe have a partial payment, and then really getting after, you know, full payment in year three. So allowing some ramp up time mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so think about having a structure in place in the beginning versus, man, let's go get a, a big line of credit and keep that balance on it, because most working capital lines are interest only payments, and you don't want the doctor to be in a situation of just paying interest only. Right? Speaker 1 00:22:53 So then termin it out would get you sort of the principle and the interest and get you moving to Speaker 3 00:22:58 Exactly, you're paying that debt down, Speaker 1 00:23:00 But that doesn't prevent you from you, me, as the let's the owner of the practice, uh, to open up another line to start a new line over again. Right? Speaker 3 00:23:14 On mo on most, not, not all. I would say most working capital lines we're, we're gonna have a renewal period mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we're gonna, we're gonna make sure that hey, that this line's been responsibly paid and that we're using it correctly. But, you know, hey, doctor wants to expand and buy some equipment. Let's look at the specific product for that. You know, let's look at an equipment loan, right? Yeah. Let's look at, Hey, we need to do some build out. Well, we, we may not want to just have an interest only payment for a long period of time. So Speaker 1 00:23:43 We've got, um, a, a few more minutes. I want to hit two more, uh, thoughts before we, before we wrap. I know one of those is gonna be near and dear to, uh, to Russ's heart, so he'll probably jump in with a, a, a comment or two as we relate to fraud. But, um, before I do that, <laugh> may, maybe some folks might think, uh, the, the bank fees are, are fraudulent, but, uh, <laugh>, we'll, uh, we'll, we'll address that. You know, again, I feel like I'm just getting hit with more and more fees, fees, fees. Uh, what are some strategies? What, what's a conversation that someone feels like they can have with their banker that, uh, could be productive, help 'em out? Is it, is it just a matter of asking and, and I know you guys gotta stay in business. We all have to stay in business. We're trying to watch costs, you're trying to watch revenues and such. How, how can someone, uh, think through a fee structure with, with their banker? Speaker 3 00:24:41 Yep. And I would say communication, right? Communication is key. And working with a banker that you trust, and that if, if there are fees associated with the account, look, let's understand what those fees are, right? Let's understand what you're paying for. Um, a lot of the larger banks will, and, and when we talk fees, it's, it's mostly, uh, treasury management fees. Uh, so you'll have, uh, a lot of advanced online banking services mm-hmm. <affirmative> for that practice, and it's about understanding what that practice needs and then charging accordingly, right. You know, a lot of the larger banks will just, they'll have a bundle package. And so what happens is that you're paying for services that you may not need, right? In that bundle. You may have remote deposit, you may have positive pay, you may have, uh, ach, uh, wires, debits, and credits, and then, uh, you may have a wire, uh, module. Speaker 3 00:25:41 So, you know, with riverbank, we're, we're gonna understand your specific need. I don't think a dental practice needs to have the ability to send 20 wires a month, right? So we're not gonna, we're not gonna charge you for that. Right. Uh, and if there is, um, if there is a monthly service fee, you know, we have a very, very strong, uh, earnings credit to where we're going to offset, you know, those fees. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if you're keeping a strong balance with, within the bank account. So, uh, hey, letting the, letting the banker understand what that specific fee is for. Let's say you're in urgent care, right? And, and you're getting $10,000 in cash a day, it may be worth paying a little extra money to have a, a safe at your practice, right. Than putting that cash in there. But not everybody is gonna pay for that, right? Speaker 1 00:26:30 I'd rather use a lockbox <laugh>, right? Right. Let somebody else handle it. But that's, there's a, there, that's another service and an opportunity a, again, with the bank to, to help out the, Speaker 3 00:26:40 But we don't wanna be paying for, you know, we don't want a customer to be paying for a lockbox if they don't need it. Certainly. Exactly. Yep. So understanding those goals, you know, streamlining those payments for the customers and, and making sure that they are truly in the right products and services. Uh, I would say that is the goal of the banker. Um, Speaker 1 00:26:59 Well, speaking of security and lock boxes and such, uh, real quick, uh, and you mentioned positive pay. A lot of times we see that as a fee that we may not need. But, uh, what is, what is positive pay? What are some things you're seeing from a fraud standpoint? You and I have, uh, talked about this in the past. Uh, give us a, a quick thought on, on fraud, uh, don't do it right, <laugh>, but, uh, what are, what are some things that, from, from your perspective, you're seeing that could help the listener, uh, out in the banking world? What, what are you seeing and what, what could, what could help us to, to know right now? Well, fraud Speaker 3 00:27:35 Is out there. Uh, it's, it's not, uh, if it'll happen, it's when it'll happen. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I mean, truly, I think the statistic is, you know, of every small business, 56% or, or, you know, some type of fraud happens to them every two years. And so it, it will happen. Uh, and it's about understanding your internal controls, right? What can you do to eliminate paper? What can you do to eliminate, you know, your account number, just being out there? Uh, some internal things that I have seen, and, and this is, you know, within the last couple weeks. So, you know, office manager may be, uh, receiving checks and marking paid via QuickBooks, uh, right. And then that money doesn't get in the bank account, and, and it may not be a lot of money, you know, but think about a time period of over a year, right. Where you've gotten a fraudulent check, or you, you know, that that employee has siphoned, uh, $150 here and there, and it certainly adds up. So, but it could Speaker 1 00:28:33 Be, yeah. Could be a Speaker 3 00:28:34 Lot of money. Exactly. Right. It is a lot of money. Who knows, over a period of time, right? It could be a large check, right? Yeah. Uh, and so as they get deeper and deeper into it, I think, you know, something like that can happen. Uh, wire fraud is just, it's out there. It happens all day every day. You know, think about an example that that, uh, that I deal with very often is a doctor wanting to purchase equipment, right? And somebody has compromised that doctor's email or maybe that sales rep's email, and then, you know, they see the communication going back and forth of like, Hey, you, let's do, let's, we're ready to purchase this equipment. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's time to send payment. Right? And then that fraudster comes in and they throw the invoice in with their routing and account number in, and then all of a sudden, a hundred thousand dollars is, is out of the bank. Speaker 3 00:29:21 Right. And, and so, you know, be careful who you're doing business with, you know, reputable suppliers Yep. And vendors, people that have that technology in place is, is very important. Um, anything you can do to eliminate paper, but, uh, you know, you mentioned positive pay, and, and that's the service that the bank will provide. And essentially we're just letting you check to make sure, you know, there's, there's a few types of positive pay. We, we can check on checks where we're gonna verify some information, right. We're gonna make sure that the check number, that the amount that the payee it, you, you may turn in a, uh, the 10 checks, 20 checks that you've written for the day, and then you're gonna upload a file, and then we may say, Hey, this, this one was not in those checks that you let us know. Do you want to pay or do you want to decline? Yeah. Right. Speaker 1 00:30:13 And that's big with, uh, especially patient refunds and, you know, just getting 'em out there. It's just a, it's a list of names, right? And you don't, the bank doesn't know those from anyone else. The practice should know, but what happens if somebody goes, uh, uh, a check in there and it, it's routed, you know, to, to their family member or friend or something else. I mean, it's, we don't wanna be paranoid, but we gotta be really respectful of, of what could happen during the day's time. Yep. Speaker 3 00:30:45 Yep. And then think about on the ACH side of things, like if you're working with the same vendors, we, we can go in and approve those vendors for a certain amount. We can say, Hey, let's, we're comfortable paying a thousand to 3000 of this vendor, but you know, if this, if the vendor's not on the list, we do not wanna pay that. Right? Right. And so, or if it's a, a 10 times that amount, maybe somebody's keyed in and an extra zero, right? Whoa, red flag, let, let's make sure that we decline this and, and get with them to see why they're trying to debit 30,000 instead of 3000. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:31:18 We've got, we've got multiple step controls. So the person requesting the, for instance, the patient refund versus the, the one who actually keys it in the QuickBooks, that's different. The person who's watching the bank is different from the person who's actually keying the refund, and then the one who signs it is even different. So there's four steps to actually getting that check. I know it's paper, but getting that check out the door back to that patient or the insurance company on any type of refund. So, and it's, it's all documented. It comes, the check just doesn't come from a, for a signature, it's gotta have the backup with it. And, uh, again, that's some paper, but the word to the practice is don't just have one person doing everything. Speaker 3 00:32:09 Right. Dual, dual control is, is so important. Yeah. And, and unfortunately, those policies that, that, that you guys and that the practice have, have implemented are from the result of fraud. Right. Right. So you've strengthened that process, which is crucial right. To protecting, because the fraudsters are out there. I mean, they, they are. Speaker 1 00:32:30 So, yeah. Well, hey, Aaron, as we wrap today, and again, thinking about the banking environment, I know a lot of folks, um, you know, the, the, the common thought is if, you know, don't go into business, if you can't afford your accountant and your, your bank and your lawyer, you really can't afford to go into business without knowing who your banker is and, and such. What are some, some kind of closing strategies or thoughts real quick as we, as we wrap today's podcast? Well, Speaker 3 00:32:57 Well, I will say as a community banker, the relationship that you just mentioned, it, it is crucial. And, and, and we are, um, you know, there to support, support you, uh, throughout all phases of practice ownership and, and working with somebody that understands that is very, is very important. And so the, the value that, uh, a a banker that understands your industry, it's, it's priceless. And that could be as simple as, as me making an inter introduction to you, uh, for that doctor to say, Hey, you, you know, uh, and you kind of go in and, and doing your thing and, and providing the consulting services that you do. But, uh, high level, you know, as a community bank, it's just, uh, it's just a, a different process. We're very hands-on. Uh, we know our customers, uh, we know the goals that they have to meet and, and we're certainly there, uh, to support them, uh, any way we can. Speaker 1 00:33:55 Very good. Well, Aaron, thank you so much for giving your time today. It's, uh, been a true pleasure and, uh, learned a lot. And, um, I wanted to, uh, just make sure that, uh, you know, again, it's just another part and another facet of what we do in practice management is knowing that that banking environment. So anyway, with that, we're going to sign off. We want to thank you for being a part of our revenue radio here, powered by Kassouf. Again, I'm your host, Jeff Dance. I'm the executive director at Kassouf Healthcare Solutions. Russ, thank you for, uh, getting us through today. And, uh, we are always available to help enhance the business of medicine in your practice as the practice manager, the physician, and the practice owner. Thanks and have a great day, and we will see you back with another segment in our revenue radio.

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