Revenue Radio: Utilizing technology in medical billing

Episode 6 October 06, 2022 00:29:10
Revenue Radio: Utilizing technology in medical billing
Kassouf Podcast Network
Revenue Radio: Utilizing technology in medical billing

Oct 06 2022 | 00:29:10


Hosted By

Tara Arrington

Show Notes

Kassouf Healthcare Solutions' Revenue Radio gives practice managers the tools you need to run a successful and profitable medical practice. Your host, Kassouf Healthcare Solutions Executive Director Jeff Dance, discusses the opportunities and challenges related to the business side of medicine. 

In this episode, Ramsey White, Vice President of Sales and Marketing for Innovative Billing Solutions, Inc, joins us again to discuss payment technologies medical practices should consider. Ramsey shared the importance of mobile solutions for billing, as many patients want to be able to access and pay their bills quickly and easily from their phone. From text alerts to emails, there are secure payment reminder options for your healthcare organization. 

Founded in 1981, Kassouf Healthcare Solutions was created to handle the business side of medicine, allowing doctors to focus on their patients. The Kassouf Healthcare Solutions team is comprised of operations management and revenue cycle specialists. We enhance the business of medicine by providing value to our clients with an action-oriented and caring customer-centered focus. Learn more here. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 00:00:04 Hello and welcome to Revenue Radio, Powered by kaso and Kaso Healthcare Solutions, where we enhance the business of medicine. My name's Jeff Dance. I'm the Executive Director of Kaso Healthcare Solutions. We're a full service managed services organization, and, uh, our sole, uh, goal is to make sure that your practice, uh, runs smoothly, uh, that your revenues, your profits, uh, your net income, all of those fit towards your, your business goals, uh, in the healthcare setting. Today, we have back with us Ramsey White from Innovative Billing Solutions, where he serves as the Vice President of Sales and Business Development. Ramsey, Uh, great to have you with us. Thanks Speaker 2 00:00:48 For having me. That, Speaker 1 00:00:49 Yeah, thanks. Uh, you, uh, you helped us out, uh, on a prior episode, understanding how merchant services worked within the whole credit card payment processing and such at a, uh, at a medical practice or in a medical practice, I guess even a revenue cycle company. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> Speaker 2 00:01:06 Definitely, Speaker 1 00:01:06 Uh, can help. And, uh, we wanted to, uh, talk today kind of as a follow up, uh, along the lines of the technology that you're seeing that practices need to consider. And, uh, we'll, we'll get into that and some of those, those items. But, uh, give us real quick a a little background on yourself. Mm-hmm. As well as innovative, uh, billing solutions, how you guys, uh, function within the credit card processing, uh, piece. And then, uh, then we'll have some questions along the lines of technology, which is really cool. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:01:39 All right. That's one of my favorite things to talk about, Ram. Thanks for having me. So, yeah, just quick intro. Our name is Innovative and we've had to be that for sure. So, um, we're actually family owned. I'm second generation, and my father started the business, um, back in the early eighties. And, um, he actually was selling medical forms, you know, those forms that used to have the custom printing, you'd tear 'em in hand off. Yeah. Um, and so he did that a long time. And then obviously the internet came and, uh, our clients started saying, How do we get payments online? So we credited an online payment portal that, um, we started integrating with medical softwares, um, to grab the account number and Right. Be able to send reporting back so that our practices knew where to post those payments. Um, and then obviously with, uh, in 2008, the iPhone came out. So we started looking at mobile solutions. And that's, um, a big part of our latest innovation is, uh, creating mobile, um, sending out texts or emails with links to pay that are secure and have the ability to auto post right back into the software. So, just some really fun stuff that's addressing the needs and kind of the demands of patients. Now. They want mobile, They live almost their whole life on a mobile device, and so we need to be able to connect with them. Speaker 1 00:03:04 Yeah. Those, uh, dot matrix printers probably, uh, <laugh>, there's, there's some warehouse somewhere that's got Speaker 2 00:03:12 'em and some landfill somewhere. Speaker 1 00:03:14 Somebody's pulling those little printer cartridges Yeah. Out to be able to help the, I guess the airlines and whoever else has a, a few of those sitting around. Yeah. But, uh, good. Well, uh, technology, you know, we've had, we've, we've come through the covid mm-hmm. <affirmative> where people were either driving by Right. Tens and all of what have apps, payment apps. We see it in regular retail. Right. Uh, we certainly don't want to consider healthcare or retail type of, um, um, business, But, but there are aspects of it that, that occur. There's time, there's efficiency, there's accuracy. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, people want to get their bills paid. We, we hope, uh, Yeah. You're, you're a big part of that as the agent, as we learned last time mm-hmm. Speaker 2 00:04:02 <affirmative> right. Speaker 1 00:04:02 To what we do. Uh, uh, how can, you know, we've got the swipers, maybe your dad was in the, kind of the crunchers that they used to have. Uh, but now we got swiping. We don't have swiping, we've got, uh, online options kind of give us a real strategy, uh, thought process as to how we as a practice manager or practice owner mm-hmm. <affirmative> can move into the new technologies. Right. Without changing it every month. Right. Cuz that's, that's gonna happen. But what are some new technologies and new efficiencies that we can think about that are cost effective, that can help our Speaker 2 00:04:42 Practices? Yeah. Well this is something I love talking about, so I appreciate you having me on. Um, so in 2020, I've, I've heard a lot of people say our technology advanced within a year mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And typically what happens in like a seven year span, um, a lot of what we saw was a gravitation to contactless payments. Um, actually Visa came out that, uh, contactless payments increased by 40% during 2020. A lot of that was necessity. Um, you know, we started realizing, hey, communicable diseases, um, the things we touch are dirty and we wanna limit those touches. So, uh, we saw a lot of mobile solutions pop up, telehealth, you know, how do we get paid in telehealth? We need to have some way of facilitating that in a secure transaction. Um, we've also see people are becoming more and more comfortable with a shift away from a physical card to a mobile wallet. We're seeing more and more of that. We'll continue to see it. Um, and I wanna encourage people not to be scared by that. Sometimes, uh, different, uh, generations are just weary of that. And I want to actually say it's amazing. Speaker 1 00:05:57 Probably doesn't work on a flip phone. Speaker 2 00:05:59 <laugh>. Well, hey, you never know. So the flip phone could come back, Speaker 1 00:06:02 But the Android or Speaker 2 00:06:03 The, Yeah. Android, iPhone. iPhone, uh, Google phones now, um, they all have mobile wallet capability and I know that can mean a lot of different things, but what I mean is using your phone to take payments and to, uh, pay for things or using an Apple watch to pay for things. Um, even now we're seeing that some states are allowing you to upload your driver's license to your mobile wallet on your phone. So it's pretty amazing. TSA will let you get on the plane. Yeah. <laugh>. Yeah. Um, we'll see more of that. And I believe we'll see our, uh, health insurance cards eventually upload it to a mobile wallet. Right. Speaker 1 00:06:43 Maybe go into the QR Speaker 2 00:06:45 Code. Yeah. QR codes. Scan it, scan check in, everything. Um, mobile pre-check is becoming a big thing. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and I really encourage people to look at that. Um, one to decrease. Nohow, nohow are a huge problem, but think about this. If a patient pays their copay the night before, 40, $60, whatever it is mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, Are they gonna show up? Yeah. They're gonna show up. Yeah. I mean, seriously, you make that payment, you're, you're gonna be there. You're, Speaker 1 00:07:16 You're, uh, obligated to yourself committed. Absolutely. Speaker 2 00:07:19 You've made an investment in yourself and you're gonna make sure you get to redeem that the next day. Um, so yeah, mobile pre-check is great. Finding a way to connect with patients on the front end. Reminders. Fantastic. Um, even having a link, Hey, do you wanna pay your copay? Here it is. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I think it's fantastic, but I just encourage your listeners as they're, and I would, I would even say, regardless of your specialty, be looking at mobile payment options. I wanna focus on the word option. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because, um, I want to be very clear, There are some patients who will pay with a check until they don't make checks anymore. Right. And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. And we need to encourage whatever form of payment that patient feels comfortable with, we wanna serve it up to them, give them the option to pay. Right. And if you don't have a mobile option, uh, I think you're really missing out. You really are. Are Speaker 1 00:08:17 There, um, I guess just from a specification, technical specification type things, just basic internet at the practice mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, you want fiber and all of that as fast as you can get. But you know, a lot of our listeners may be in rural practices. There, there are some bandwidth issues and such. Connectivity and, and whatever. Are there any, is there any of that that, that stands in the way of these options? Speaker 2 00:08:46 That's a great, that's a great question. I'm really glad you asked that because rural clinics struggle sometimes with getting paid. It's not because I don't believe it's cuz of the patient base. I believe it's cuz they don't have as many tools as maybe somebody in more of an urban setting. Now, what's really cool, there are payment partners out there who can facilitate text and email and online without being dependent on your local environment. So for example, um, a lot of those clinics are sending out paper statements, but they may not know that that payment partner, whoever's sending out that paper statement, they have a text or email option too that can facilitate a mobile payment and they can send it back to the clinic. It doesn't have to be dependent on the local environment because it's cloud based. Right. And when there's a cloud based solution, everyone can benefit from it, regardless of if you're in a rural setting, urban setting, big city, small town, everyone can benefit from it. Speaker 1 00:09:51 Is that your clearing house that you need to check with on that? Or is it a separate bolt on Speaker 2 00:09:59 It could be a revenue cycle partner. Okay. Um, it could be your, like we have our own solutions mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, and we're just a, a payment partner. Um, but yeah. Different, different clearinghouses. They might have a partner that does a piece of it. So just really asking those questions like, what do I have available to me Now, some software partners, they've gotta integrate it, it in, and I've noticed a lot of people don't know the technology capability they have for payments in their own software. They're just not familiar with it. Right. So it might be worth a phone call, you know, hey, or a at chatting support. Right. Whatever your Right. Your way to connect with your software is look into it. You'd be surprised. Speaker 1 00:10:42 And software, I mean, uh, not software developers, but the web developers mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you want to find a web web developer, you know, the, the, the entity, the person, the whoever it is that's developing your website needs to be able to understand how to integrate that, uh, link, I guess is the right word. Yes. Yes. For online payments and some of those, uh, uh, new features. Right. And I would encourage, and I know I'll, not that I'm a tech, uh, junkie or, or expert, but I do know that that is one of the things that we look for, right. As we guide our clients through, I want to get my website, uh, you know, updated or changed. Right. We wanna look for a developer partner that UNDERST understands that online payment processing piece. Right. I guess work with, uh, an an agent like Speaker 2 00:11:41 Yourself, Right? Right. Speaker 1 00:11:42 Uh, or an, uh, organization like yourself to be able to make that happen. Right. Cause you may have a website that looks good, but it's the functionality of it's just not Speaker 2 00:11:52 There. Right? Yeah. And I, and actually I'm glad you, you know, emphasize the website because 90% of people when they know they owe a business money, they go to their website first. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so think about it, you could have patients patient traffic coming to your website and they, they, they can't pay mm-hmm. <affirmative> and they might call and then they might be on hold. And you just gotta think any barriers, we have to keep a patient from paying your, your results are gonna go down that day as an AR is gonna increase. Yeah. We don't wanna remove any of those barriers. And a website is a great place to have an entry point. It's your digital front door. Yeah. And, um, I actually, I don't know if you've seen this Jeff, but some of our, uh, you know, 1 1 2 providers, they don't even have a website. Speaker 2 00:12:41 Yeah. I can't believe it. I'm like, man, well let's get a website up. Like we want people to find you. Right. And, um, I've especially seen it with providers who are maybe nearing the end of their career who are looking for a, um, a transition person to come in. Right. You also need to consider, hey, our practice needs to be findable. Sure. Someone needs to be able to find us to search us who maybe look is looking to move into this area. So, and having a payment option on there is only gonna help. Right. Connect and collect. Speaker 1 00:13:12 I think too, a lot of, uh, those types of practices, they may not be fully functional on their, um, on their emr. Right. And they're dependent on the practice management system mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then they've got this portal out there that they know they've gotta have from their incentive issues and such and closing the loops and gaps. So I think they, they just def by default, don't want to think about it and Oh, the portal will handle it and Right. That may not be the case. Speaker 2 00:13:46 Right. And that, I'm glad you said that because my question is how do they get to the portal mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, how do they get there? They need an entry point. Right. And, um, you know, we have noticed the portal, um, you, you need it to be compliant mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, but very few patients are using it. Speaker 1 00:14:04 Well, speaking of compliance, uh, let's just take a, a quick, uh, uh, rabbit trail real fast. Yeah. PCI compliance. Do I have to have that? Is that something my insurance company provides? What, what do I need to do? I know there's cyber reliability. We've had, uh, some insurance folks on that mm-hmm. <affirmative> have talked about that. But from your perspective in the credit card world, uh, tell us what we need to know about PCI compliance real quick and then we'll, we'll move on to other technologies. Yes. Cause it, it does fit, Speaker 2 00:14:37 It, it, Oh, it definitely fits. And, um, it's incredibly important. It's also required, anyone who is accepting credit card payments must show PCI compliance. It's a federal, um, mandate. It's done usually on a quarterly basis mm-hmm. <affirmative> or an annual basis depending on your merchant service company. Now, um, what that usually entails is, uh, taking a questionnaire of how you're handling patient sensitive credit card data in your office. Um, you know, depending on if you're using a cloud based solution showing that no information is stored here on at this physical location so that you're not, you're not, uh, liable for that if a breach were to happen, but also showing your network is secure. You know, um, we don't have any areas or pathways that are exposed that nefarious agents could come in and try to grab our credit card information. Um, uh, one of the things too is very simple, but you're not, uh, writing down credit card Yeah. Numbers in the office and then just leaving them on the counter. Right. Um, Speaker 1 00:15:47 Put 'em on the sticky notes. I'll get to that later. I'll Speaker 2 00:15:50 That pace. And then writing. Speaker 1 00:15:51 I charge that patient later. Speaker 2 00:15:52 Yeah. That patient wants me to call them at the first of the month. Yeah. Please don't do that. Yeah. Um, but then also one thing, uh, we're encouraging people with being compliant is on your statements. I'm surprised how many clients have a right in credit card option and they don't know that the patients could be keying this in online themselves. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. They just don't know. And so they have it there. Maybe they haven't even looked at their statement in five years. They don't know it's even there. But take that off. Right. You know, take it off. It's just, it's creating risk in your office. Right. Speaker 1 00:16:25 And, and the messaging on those statements is now pretty, uh, pretty easy to use and change. Yes. It doesn't cost you anything. It takes a minute just to put 'em at, hey, visit our website, Right. Online page mm-hmm. <affirmative>, whatever we want to message on there. Even clinic hour changes and, and such. Um, that's a, that's a great, um, thought and mm-hmm. <affirmative> helpful hint. But, um, I know our great producer here, Russ Dorsey, who's our principal at casu, and it, uh, director and manager, <laugh>, he's, uh, he's probably giving us a big thumbs up for, uh, making sure we, we talk about security and compliance. It's, and it's something we gotta review. Speaker 3 00:17:07 Right. And, and, and I was gonna ask, um, I didn't know I was gonna be on today, so got a face for radio for sure. <laugh>, but, um, Speaker 1 00:17:16 We always love having, having you with us. I Speaker 2 00:17:18 Love to chime Speaker 3 00:17:19 In. I appreciate that. But the, uh, the quarterly, the PCI compliance is quarterly and it's a self attestation mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, typically done through providers like you, you, Speaker 2 00:17:30 So they will, uh, there's a portal that you are merchant company will direct you to mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, it's sometimes it's called a data guardian portal or a PCI compliance portal. And you do have to answer questions on how are you handling credit card data in the office? Um, what methods are you doing that? And then depending on the method, um, they also will ask for, are you using like a gateway to handle payments? Um, you know, they wanna make sure you're using a good gateway that's secure and, um, that they give their sample approval for. Um, Speaker 3 00:18:06 But there's, there's ba there's four, I call 'em flavors, but there's, there's four levels of compliance, B, C, and D. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and the, the, the one you wanna get to, I think is a, where basically you're not keeping credit cards on site at all. At all. Uh, and then so that's important. Cause I've seen practices misanswered that first set of qualifiers and then go through the much more detailed C or D as if they were storing credit card information. Right. So you've catch that, Speaker 2 00:18:32 Right? Yes. Yeah. We try to support them through that and we'll often get the IT company involved because it's not an easy questionnaire. It's not it far as Yeah. If you've gone, it's like a hundred Speaker 1 00:18:43 Questions. Absolutely. If you've, it takes, Speaker 2 00:18:46 It takes time. Speaker 1 00:18:47 You're not gonna just knock that out in an afternoon. No, Speaker 2 00:18:50 It Speaker 1 00:18:50 Is, Yeah. It's a, it's a beast. Speaker 2 00:18:52 Some of them will even have their IT company on the phone Yeah. Or doing a screen share. Cuz there are some technical jargon that, I mean, the everyday person, you're gonna have no idea. Sure. So it's good to have them on to support you in that. Right. Speaker 3 00:19:05 Yeah. And I would also, uh, suggest, uh, practices have been doing HIPAA compliance, uh, anyway since mm-hmm. <affirmative>, well before high tech, some of 'em, but all of 'em since high tech and there are crosswalks available, um, uh, cyber security crosswalks where if you've got your HIPAA risk assessment and you know, you gotta do your PCI anyway, you've got and Google these. Right. But you can take answers from the hip assessment you're already doing and plug it Speaker 2 00:19:31 In. That's great. I didn't know that. Do 'em together. Yeah. Speaker 3 00:19:34 Yeah. And, and, and that's really the way you wanna keep your documentation so that when you're actually doing your, your policies and procedures, you just go ahead footnote, the HIPAA and the pci Right. Uh, piece of it that you're satisfying at that time. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:19:46 And it's great. If you don't get through the PCI compliance, then your processor, uh, will charge you mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, for as a premium and almost like an insurance premium or a penalty for Speaker 2 00:20:03 That matter's. It's a penalty for sure. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:20:04 It's 7,500 bucks, whatever it is a month. Speaker 2 00:20:07 Yes. It can get very expensive fast. Yeah. Um, so it's worth your time. You know, it's worth, uh, it's worth doing. And just the peace of mind healthcare is so unique in that we're handling such sensitive information. I mean, stuff that is federally protected <laugh>. Right. Um, and credit cards are something that you want to make sure is just as protected. Speaker 1 00:20:31 Yeah. Uh, that's, uh, that Thank you. Uh, that I think that's a great, um, segment there mm-hmm. <affirmative> within, just to, just to remind folks that this is, it is a complex part of your practice, Right. And the revenue cycle piece, the payment capture piece mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, to, to the full, uh, rcm, if, you know, again, if Marty were here, uh, she would, she would echo all of this as far as efficiencies and the security piece and such, um, in the, in the revenue cycle. But it also fits into operations. Operations has to work with that front desk. Yes. Operations has got to, if you're the practice manager and you put on that operations hat, you're, you're looking at all of these technologies and such working with the IT vendors and, um, so you hear about technologies such as Square and Nerd Wallet, um, Heim and some of these others. Is that, is that an option for me? Is that something for me to consider in a medical practice? How does that fit with a, with an innovative or just Visa or whoever? How does all of that work? Speaker 2 00:21:48 Well, we're really talking about Gateways mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, um, I know it's confusing, but there's a lot of different entities involved in a payment transaction. Um, and a lot of people are using a gateway on top of their, uh, depositing entity, which might be TSIs or First Data. That Gateway is a cloud-based reporting tool where all payments flow in. One of the unique challenges in healthcare is, especially with patient payment, our practices are taking payments from so many different places, really all times a day after hours. We talked about on the last episode, insurance companies paying, Well, where do those payments go? And then how do you report them? So with a cloud based reporting tool, like, or we use e processing as our gateway, um, or, uh, if you've used Stripe before, they are a processor and a gateway in one or PayPal is it, or a Gateway way. Speaker 2 00:22:49 And one, they're the same. Good. Um, now the disadvantage to that is they make you use their, uh, processor as opposed to, uh, e processing or authorized on net. You can use your bank, um, you can use whoever your current processor is. You have more flexibility. But from an operational standpoint, all those payments need to come into one place for centralized reporting and it needs to be cloud based. So you can access it from your home, from Starbucks, wherever you sometimes venture out and be able to see those payments come in. And then also that each payment has an account number connected to it that is crucial in healthcare. Yeah. What we're seeing more and more, Jeff, is the names on the cards are not always matching the patient in the software that creates a posting issue. Yep. Because now we have this payment sitting here and the practice doesn't know where, where to post it. Right. Or the revenue cycle team doesn't know where to post it. Right. And guess what they do? They wait on the patient to call and say, Hey, I paid that. And then they're like, You're the, you're the one we were waiting on. Right. So, uh, cloud based integrated operational reporting tool, like a gateway is gonna mitigate a lot of that. Speaker 1 00:24:03 Let's talk hardware real quick. Sure. Cause you brought up the Apple watch. Does that mean I gotta go and put it onto, uh, a device? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, we see in retail or restaurants where they actually bring the device to the table, stick the card in mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you can punch in your tip and do all of that. Uh, how do you see one, what would I need, uh, right now to where do you see some of that future thinking going? And, um, and then we'll, we'll wrap with some concluding Speaker 2 00:24:33 Tap to pay. It's all gonna be tap to pay. So, uh, we still see a lot of swipers out in the field, but from a hardware standpoint, it's gonna be moving to chip readers, you know, um, even readers that can, uh, sync up to like a kiosk, um, readers that can, We see a lot of people are using our chip reader to put on the checking counter and letting the patient do the whole transaction. They tap to pay. Um, the front desk person doesn't even have to touch the card because we learned, and we talked about last episode, that credit cards are dirty. Yeah. They're never cleaned. Right. So having the patient do the whole transaction, it's easy, it's simple, it's streamlined, Um, and it's also better for, uh, communic cool diseases in the office. Sure, sure. So, um, yeah. But then not only having a chip reader that you can tap to pay or even activate your mobile wallet on your phone and hold over, but that pay payment and that reader needs to connect to your practice management software or your EHR software, that payment needs to flow into your system. So Speaker 1 00:25:39 I wanna make a call to them, make sure they understand what I'm trying to get accomplished. They may have some recommendations. Speaker 2 00:25:45 Yes. And, um, it's built in. Yeah. And what we're seeing is the EHR software is now becoming the P pos terminal. Right. And it's communicating with that reader. So, uh, like a couple of our integrations, you pull up the patient inside of the software, you click scan card, and that patient taps and that payment flows in and it post immediately. It's all hardware connected, it's all technology, and it's becoming really streamlined, um, better for the practice and patients love it. Speaker 1 00:26:17 Sure. Well, Ramsey, thank you again for Oh, yeah. Come on, Russ. Yeah. Speaker 3 00:26:23 I I feel compelled to jump Speaker 2 00:26:25 Back in, jump back Speaker 3 00:26:26 In just a, just a minute. Yeah. Um, as those devices come in and we do see more, um, of, of those, uh, devices, we have to talk about the internet of things. Yes, we do. And we have to talk about the security of those devices and that you're putting these devices onto the network. So consult with your, I guess I could put the camera on me again. Um, consult with your IT provider because it's possible to segment those things. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the card readers and the kiosks and all these things that the, uh, are, are going to be, uh, they're processing the payments because it's all gonna go back to the cloud first anyway, before it comes back to the emr, Speaker 2 00:27:03 Right? Yeah. Speaker 3 00:27:04 So it's possible to segment those things off along with your thermostats and your aquariums and your refrigerators and all these other things that don't need to be on the same network as your emr. Yeah. Um, so that's, that's an important thing. Plus, that'll help you pass the P C I D SS scans mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because if you can give the provider a single IP address Speaker 2 00:27:22 Yeah. Speaker 3 00:27:22 That they can scan this only your credit cards rather than your whole network that also has your patient wifi and all this other stuff on it, you get a cleaner scan Speaker 2 00:27:30 Back. Yeah. That's a good point. I'm glad you shared that. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:27:34 We'll have a, we'll have an episode on, on aquariums. Speaker 2 00:27:38 <laugh>. We need to have an Internet of Things episode <laugh>. Yeah, that'd be fun. Speaker 1 00:27:43 We're talking about, uh, getting something off your, off your back and aquarium, but, uh, <laugh>, that was, anyway. Speaker 2 00:27:49 I love it. Speaker 1 00:27:50 Done a few of those abatements. All right. Well, Ramsey, thank you so much, Russ. Thanks for joining in, uh, and helping us out along this, this line. Tell us, uh, Ramsey, how can we get in touch with you if we've got more of these types of questions? Speaker 2 00:28:04 Yeah, feel free to send any our way. Uh, we love this kind of stuff, so, uh, they can go to, our website is, uh, https colon slash slash uh, in That's I N N b And they can click, uh, contact us and, uh, we'll be happy to, happy to answer any questions before we Speaker 1 00:28:25 Can reach, reach back out to 'em. Yep. Speaker 2 00:28:26 Very good. Speaker 1 00:28:27 Well, again, we thank you for your insight and, uh, how we can maximize our practice. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> operations as well as our revenues, our, uh, and all that we do within our, within our practices. So again, to our listeners, thank you for being with us today. We hope, uh, to see you back soon on another episode of our Revenue Radio that's powered by caou and Kaso Healthcare Solutions, uh, where we enhance the business of medicine. This is Jeff Dance, Executive Director of Caou Healthcare Solutions. Wishing you a very good day. Thank you for being with us. Thanks.

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